Brian, I kind of love 'em, although I'm the first to admit I can't
find 'em. I happened to mention to one of my students (who happens to
be a LOT brighter than me) that I wanted to start doing crossword
puzzles for the brainy exercise, and she started bringing in the
Monday and Tuesday NY Times puzzles. Which, if you're into it, you'll
know are the easy ones. I got about as far with those as I got with
these:

http://www.sover.net/~tcooch/frodo.htm

http://www.mapsurfer.com/boxes/box9.html

http://www.mapsurfer.com/boxes/box14.html

http://www.egroups.com/group/letterbox-usa/2152.html

I think the cryptic clues, especially the good ones, are written with
a wink and a smile, and that when I do puzzle one out it's that much
more rewarding. So I'm with you: they drive me nuts, but they give me
something to chew on in the background while I'm going through the
daily routine in my "real" world, and I hope to see more coming
online with this new year's spring fever and the expanding number of
boxers gleefully sneaking around in the woods. I've found the best
revenge is to plant one myself. And, the couple I have found, I've
been able to "research" completely from Yahoo to decipher out the
obscurity. Go for one!

Jay

> Hey folks.....
>
> Can those with mystery letterboxes at LEAST give a STARTING POINT?
> Even something like... "start in FLORIDA".... or... "all these
clues are from Sherlock Holmes books".... at least we would know if
we have a CHANCE of ever finding the dang thing.
>
> .....Bryan (I love hide and seek and walking in the woods but can
> never solve Agatha Cristy books) Toy

Bryan,

I feel your pain! I've tried some of the mystery boxes with varied
success. I'm making progress on some, totally stumped on others, but
I think that's what makes these special.

You might try a direct appeal (off-list) to the owner. They might be
more willing to give a little hint, or they might not.

Have you tried Tom Cooch's Kimball Letterbook which can be reached via
http://www.webring.org/cgi-bin/webring?ring=lboxring;list

You can do the whole thing on the web...

It sounds like you really want to find some, and maybe feel a little
isolated in your neck of the woods since there may not be any boxes
to find near you. Don't despair! We seem to be growing nicely, and
if you put some boxes out in your area, that should attract some
letterboxers, who hopefully will hide some boxes as well. You could
also see if you can get jay and his clan to come out for the
weekend! :)

Good luck!

Lone Wolf


--- In letterbox-usa@egroups.com, "bryan toy" wrote:
> Hey folks.....
>
> Can those with mystery letterboxes at LEAST give a STARTING POINT?
> Even something like... "start in FLORIDA".... or... "all these
clues
> are from Sherlock Holmes books".... at least we would know if we
have
> a CHANCE of ever finding the dang thing.
>
> .....Bryan (I love hide and seek and walking in the woods but can
> never solve Agatha Cristy books) Toy

Jay wrote:

> And, the couple I have found, I've
>been able to "research" completely from Yahoo to decipher out the
>obscurity. Go for one!

Jay

Out of curiosity, can you share which ones you've found?

Lone Wolf

Jay,

don't forget:
http://www.mapsurfer.com/boxes/box3.html
which has me more frustrated than any (except maybe for alphabet soup!)

Then there's the ones we may not even know how to access the clues for!!!!

And what's up with Valley Forge #4!!!!

Just loving it all!!!!

Lone Wolf

>>> "B. J. Drew" 04/11 7:49 AM >>>
Brian, I kind of love 'em, although I'm the first to admit I can't
find 'em. I happened to mention to one of my students (who happens to
be a LOT brighter than me) that I wanted to start doing crossword
puzzles for the brainy exercise, and she started bringing in the
Monday and Tuesday NY Times puzzles. Which, if you're into it, you'll
know are the easy ones. I got about as far with those as I got with
these:

http://www.sover.net/~tcooch/frodo.htm

http://www.mapsurfer.com/boxes/box9.html

http://www.mapsurfer.com/boxes/box14.html

http://www.egroups.com/group/letterbox-usa/2152.html

I think the cryptic clues, especially the good ones, are written with
a wink and a smile, and that when I do puzzle one out it's that much
more rewarding. So I'm with you: they drive me nuts, but they give me
something to chew on in the background while I'm going through the
daily routine in my "real" world, and I hope to see more coming
online with this new year's spring fever and the expanding number of
boxers gleefully sneaking around in the woods. I've found the best
revenge is to plant one myself. And, the couple I have found, I've
been able to "research" completely from Yahoo to decipher out the
obscurity. Go for one!

Jay

> Hey folks.....
>
> Can those with mystery letterboxes at LEAST give a STARTING POINT?
> Even something like... "start in FLORIDA".... or... "all these
clues are from Sherlock Holmes books".... at least we would know if
we have a CHANCE of ever finding the dang thing.
>
> .....Bryan (I love hide and seek and walking in the woods but can
> never solve Agatha Cristy books) Toy


------------------------------------------------------------------------
PlanetOutdoors.com carries great outdoor and active brands including:
The North Face, Marmot, Nike, Patagonia, Plus many more...
We also feature outdoor sports gear for all of your activities.
http://click.egroups.com/1/2704/2/_/12562/_/955453765/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
> Jay
>
> Out of curiosity, can you share which ones you've found?
>
> Lone Wolf

Mornin', John! My 15 year old figured out "Ray's Dilemma" (under
the "?" on the Connecticut map at the home page) by surfing the
keywords on Yahoo. It's a really fun box to find! It does take a
little local knowledge as well, but there are a surprising number of
personal stamps in the book.

The other one we've found doesn't

>
>at LEAST give a STARTING POINT?
> Even something like... "start in FLORIDA".... or... "all these
>clues
> are from Sherlock Holmes books"....
>

so I'd be afraid that mentioning it wouldn't be fair to the owner. We
do think, however, that like Susan we're hot on the trail of Merlin's
Pre-Columbian Mystery, and hope to be stamping up there someday, if
we can swing the trip to the ----unsaid---- location.

Jay

Actually, I like the fact that the starting point is ambigious. Some sort
of checking scheme would be nice (to eliminate being in the wrong
state.) Perhaps something like, "Enter_the_name_of_the_state_park".html
would be useful for those who wish to have the verification.

Not for me though, considering that I just started research on "Merlin's
Pre-columbian," and the research itself is very exciting. Randy, I wish I
knew how you came up with this stuff, it is great!!! I figured out 2 or
three visions, and hope to find the third soon. I like the challenge,
especially if I am able to beat the Drew clan or Sara to the box...

JD

On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, bryan toy wrote:

> Hey folks.....
>
> Can those with mystery letterboxes at LEAST give a STARTING POINT?
> Even something like... "start in FLORIDA".... or... "all these clues
> are from Sherlock Holmes books".... at least we would know if we have
> a CHANCE of ever finding the dang thing.
>
> .....Bryan (I love hide and seek and walking in the woods but can
> never solve Agatha Cristy books) Toy
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> PlanetOutdoors.com carries great outdoor and active brands including:
> The North Face, Marmot, Nike, Patagonia, Plus many more...
> We also feature outdoor sports gear for all of your activities.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2704/2/_/12562/_/955423769/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Disch |Department of Chemistry www.tufts.edu/~jdisch
jdisch@tufts.edu |Tufts University www.tufts.edu/
P-323 ext. 75745 |Rybak-Akimova Research Lab welcome.to/rybaklab
|Graduate Student Council www.tufts.edu/~gsc
|GCMS/MALDI Instrument TA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A clue is a clue is a clue. If you all knew the clue's clue, I would then
think you all knew what the clue means to who, so do you? Have a clue so
to speak...good day to you and you and you.... life is so clueless!!!

I echo Jeremy in liking the starting point's being ambiguous.
Merlin's has been the most rewarding letterbox for me to date. I did
drive many hours to a location I thought was the right one, only to
find it was not the right location (or the right state.) But a few
weeks later I was all-the-more compensated.

Sometimes it is possible to give folks the opportunity to check
their deductions on-line, without allowing the possibility of
persistent guessing giving it away. For example, I think it would be
hard to verify the correctness of the trivia questions for Cadillac
Mountain (using the on-line "check your answers" that is provided) by
random guessing. I doubt, however, that there is a feasible method of
allowing someone to check the state in which the quest starts - or
even the state park. Those are finite (even in Connecticut).

All in all, I think the clues for the few mystery boxes out there are
fine as they stand.

Tom



> Actually, I like the fact that the starting point is ambigious. Some sort
> of checking scheme would be nice (to eliminate being in the wrong
> state.) Perhaps something like, "Enter_the_name_of_the_state_park".html
> would be useful for those who wish to have the verification.
>
> Not for me though, considering that I just started research on "Merlin's
> Pre-columbian," and the research itself is very exciting. Randy, I wish I
> knew how you came up with this stuff, it is great!!! I figured out 2 or
> three visions, and hope to find the third soon. I like the challenge,
> especially if I am able to beat the Drew clan or Sara to the box...
>
> JD
>
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, bryan toy wrote:
>
> > Hey folks.....
> >
> > Can those with mystery letterboxes at LEAST give a STARTING POINT?
> > Even something like... "start in FLORIDA".... or... "all these clues
> > are from Sherlock Holmes books".... at least we would know if we have
> > a CHANCE of ever finding the dang thing.
> >
> > .....Bryan (I love hide and seek and walking in the woods but can
> > never solve Agatha Cristy books) Toy
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > PlanetOutdoors.com carries great outdoor and active brands including:
> > The North Face, Marmot, Nike, Patagonia, Plus many more...
> > We also feature outdoor sports gear for all of your activities.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/2704/2/_/12562/_/955423769/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Jeremy Disch |Department of Chemistry www.tufts.edu/~jdisch
> jdisch@tufts.edu |Tufts University www.tufts.edu/
> P-323 ext. 75745 |Rybak-Akimova Research Lab welcome.to/rybaklab
> |Graduate Student Council www.tufts.edu/~gsc
> |GCMS/MALDI Instrument TA
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> PlanetOutdoors.com carries great outdoor and active brands including:
> The North Face, Marmot, Nike, Patagonia, Plus many more...
> We also feature outdoor sports gear for all of your activities.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2704/2/_/12562/_/955469253/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
The Orient Express
Braintree, VT
P13F50

"The game is afoot!"

with all the hoopla about these cryptic clues, I would like a shot at them.
would some one please tell exactly where I can find and print out a copy, I
am new at this but love a good puzzle. The Rambler... dont forget if
your in the finger lakes area their is a box tucked away some where near.

> Actually, I like the fact that the starting point is ambigious. Some sort
> of checking scheme would be nice (to eliminate being in the wrong
> state.) Perhaps something like, "Enter_the_name_of_the_state_park".html
> would be useful for those who wish to have the verification.

I personally would not usually consider doing this. Clues can be written
to verify themselves to those who truly solve them (as opposed to those
who "think" they have :-)); I call it the "ah experience" which I sometimes
try to weave into clues to have the same effect. Its more fun that way.

Secondly, confidence is a big part of the game in some styles of clues.
It weeds out the true problem solver from the wannabe; you need to be
pretty sure you've got the right insight before driving off to state X
or following a trail for 5 miles, or else be bold, persistent or just
plain willing to take big chances to bag big fishes. Such an online
verification scheme would lower the bar in these regards; its a lot
different being _sure_ or not that state X is right before driving
300 miles, and IMO, lower the cachet of these sorts of boxes.

Fortunately, there are plenty of different styles of clues out there for
people of all interests to hopefully find something they like.

> Not for me though, considering that I just started research on "Merlin's
> Pre-columbian," and the research itself is very exciting. Randy, I wish I
> knew how you came up with this stuff, it is great!!!

Thanks. I wish I had time to do more, because they are fun to do. I hope
to do a couple more this season, though ...

> Speaking of mystery boxes and Randy :) I went back to the Eastern
> Shore MD box, and I really think you should check on it. The area took
> extensive flood damage, and it seems part of your clue is no longer there.

That's unfortunate. I'll let the list know when I check on it, but right
now its the middle of the sport orienteering season so it may be a while.
I have gotten better at hiding boxes in secure locations with zero chance of
accidental discovery and in working backwards from the box location when
writing
the clues, but that was an early box, and sometimes the clue dictates where
the box needs to go and it isn't always possible to do this.

--
Randy "the mapsurfer"
Orienteer * Letterboxer * Globetrotter
http://www.letterboxing.org/faq.html

can you forward the clues to the finger lakes box, don't believe I have seen
that one-wlr
-----Original Message-----
From: GRumsmoke@aol.com
To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] GAHHHH!!! Cryptic clues drive me nuts!


>with all the hoopla about these cryptic clues, I would like a shot at them.
>would some one please tell exactly where I can find and print out a copy,
I
>am new at this but love a good puzzle. The Rambler... dont forget if
>your in the finger lakes area their is a box tucked away some where near.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Enter to WIN one of 10 NEW Kenmore Ranges!
>Only at sears.com
>http://click.egroups.com/1/2677/2/_/12562/_/955492750/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

The Ramblers Letterbox is in Alpine, NY. The clues can be accessed
off our LbNA maps, or directly at

http://www.sover.net/~tcooch/alpine.htm

Tom


> can you forward the clues to the finger lakes box, don't believe I have seen
> that one-wlr
> -----Original Message-----
> From: GRumsmoke@aol.com
> To: letterbox-usa@egroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] GAHHHH!!! Cryptic clues drive me nuts!
>
>
> >with all the hoopla about these cryptic clues, I would like a shot at them.
> >would some one please tell exactly where I can find and print out a copy,
> I
> >am new at this but love a good puzzle. The Rambler... dont forget if
> >your in the finger lakes area their is a box tucked away some where near.
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Enter to WIN one of 10 NEW Kenmore Ranges!
> >Only at sears.com
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/2677/2/_/12562/_/955492750/
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Avoid the lines and visit avis.com for quick and easy online
> reservations. Enjoy a compact car nationwide for only $29 a day!
> Click here for more details.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3011/2/_/12562/_/956115113/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
The Orient Express
Braintree, VT
P13F50

"The game is afoot!"